Template talk:Skill
We really need to be using a template for the skills pages. It enables us to separate data from presentation, so we can ensure a uniform look across all the skill articles, and that we can discuss and modify this look as we see fit and apply it to all skills pages instantly. So here's my attempt at creating a template for the skills. At the moment how it presents the data isn't important (though for the moment I've done it in the style of Kathilda's design). The problem with designing this template has been the fact that there's a lot of variation in what the skills do, and creating a set of template parameters to cover them all has been difficult. My knowledge of the skills is much less than other people here, so this first specification may well need modification, but hopefully together we can find a spec that works for every skill. After that we can start converting our current skills articles to use the template (which won't be that much work, honest!) and we can start discussing how we want the skills articles to look. So the first question is: what skills would these template parameters not work for? :--Onteron (talk) 22:28, 14 October 2008 (UTC) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think you got pretty much anything... The tables look good. We just need to get used to them. I'll laso like to keep the small icon imagies and to find "in action" screens, like the arcane missile one.Torg Snowflake 02:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC) :Template is very clear and looks great. Tables are also fine with me. (I'm not sure why some people object to them. Perhaps it's a pro web designer thing -- someone told them tables were bad.). :One spell effect that does not appear to be captured are those that can be cast on multiple allies. An example is Stalker Surroundings which is cast on the Hunter and multiples of allies that increase by level. Some offensive debuffs may also work like this, but I'm not sure.G.Slack 03:37, 15 October 2008 (UTC) ::I think I get what you mean. Some kind of "area effect" of buff-debuff skills... Am I the only one that thinks "technical notes" is a good idea? Stuff like the one I wrote in the the warlock's skills. How to recognize the skill, general uses, etc (This could include data to clear stuff like stalker sorroundings). Of course trying to avoid subjective obervations. ::Eg: Sultar's terror says "A large group knock down, with flying green skulls is this spell's trademark. Since the knock down effect can be resisted and the physical damage reduced with protection, this skill is most effective when used quickly before enemies activate defensive auras. For that end, arcane devotion giving half the casting time is a nice bonus. This move is feared for it's crippling effect, if it strikes small groups can take out bigger ones easly."Torg Snowflake 03:48, 15 October 2008 (UTC) :::Technical notes sounds like a great idea. It would really help newcomers to the game. Is there enough room in a template category to capture technical notes? (I assume they will run a paragraph or two). Should there be a note1, note2, note3 tag? Or should it follow the template in a freeform paragraph? G.Slack 04:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC) To quickly deal with a couple of points: Yep, the icons will stay. I think with our icon images, we should rename them into a consistent naming scheme, partly just for the sake of tidyness, but also the template could then add them automatically without the need for an extra parameter. Screenshots and any other info: yeah we want to have plenty of good stuff like this for each article, so just put it in underneath the template. :--Onteron (talk) 18:00, 15 October 2008 (UTC) ::That's awesome, but some skills will require some more information in the template, for example Provoking Blow (debuff at level >1). South Cross, Ripost, Mind Squasher, Back Slam, Dispell Magic, those 5 amongst others have a % of chance for extra damage/removing all positive buffs/dizzy/dispell. --Kathilda 19:46, 15 October 2008 (UTC) I think it can do the Provoking Blow debuff at level >1: template code temporarily commented out due to changes in template but I still don't quite understand what the "Weapon damage: 100%" is on that spell, or how the other spells work. Could you do one of your tables for one or two of them? --Onteron (talk) 20:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC) Here is an example, and good surprise after making it, it works with the changes you made recently. template code temporarily commented out due to changes in template About the 100% weapon damage it just means it's a damaging spell making 100% of your weapon damage. It's important especially if your enemy has Divine Intervention on. For the position in the skill tree, using "position" instead of "level" could be a nice idea. Kathilda 06:56, 16 October 2008 (UTC) :Thanks, I understand now. I'll develop the template a bit. --Onteron (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2008 (UTC) :Since ppl seemed to like the tables, I've developed the template and incorporated Kathilda's designs of using the in game colors. Though I'm not sure I've got the colors exactly right yet. (Examples can be seen on the template page.) Tying in with the discussion on Talk:South Cross about how to present the data for that skill, I guess there are a couple of ways it could be done with this template: 1 (as Kathilda had originally done this page) and 2. I like the template a lot, I think it covers pretty much every type of spell, I'd like to see an example of a damage-over-time spell, or a heal-over-time (regenerate self/ally, mana communion etc), and if that works fine, I say we move all spells to the new template. Panoramix Miraculix 23:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC) :Does Sultar's Terror (one of the examples on the template page), do damage over time? Or is its 'duration' only for the knock-down? I've made a small modification now so that if the spell is a 'constant' spell, it says "Damage (per second)", instead of just "Damage". Here's an example of Restore Ally. And another skill that was mentioned upthread: Stalker Surroundings. --Onteron (talk) 21:09, 17 October 2008 (UTC) :: No terror doesn't generate damage over time, the duration is related to the knockdown effect. Kathilda 16:26, 18 October 2008 (UTC) :::Ok, I've undone that last change then. I guess the easiest way to make it clear that a skill does damage/restore over time is to add "per second" to the row, like this: Restore Ally, Beetle Swarm --Onteron (talk) 16:44, 18 October 2008 (UTC) -------------------------------- Some skills are also "passive" i.e. they are permanent increases to skills/abilities and have no casting time. Examples are Wild_Spirit or Lightness. Perhaps "Passive" can be acceptable value in the Casting tag. (A zero casting time is not the same thing as Passive). G.Slack 01:58, 25 October 2008 (UTC) It might also be helpful to include the skill tree level needed to use the skill (1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19). This is obviously important information people use when planning builds.G.Slack 02:04, 25 October 2008 (UTC) :Sorry, I hadn't done an example, but passive is already there under the "type" parameter. If the skill type is passive the template doesn't show a casting or cooldown time etc. I've now done a skill to illustrate it: Foresight. Re the discipline level, I've bunged it in, though I think that top section is going to need a bit of reformatting to look nicer. --Onteron (talk) 17:54, 25 October 2008 (UTC) ::That looks great to me. One other question I had was about categories for skills. Are these generated automatically by the template, or do they have to be manually added? Would it be helpful to add a category for each skill level, or would this be too much clutter? G.Slack 05:26, 26 October 2008 (UTC) :::Yeah the categories are automatic, and you can never have too many as far as I'm concerned :) Though selective categories can be "hidden", meaning the article appears in that category but the category name doesn't appear at the bottom of the page. Sorry I'm not quite sure quite what you're suggesting for the extra category though, do you mean "Discipline level 1 skills", "Discipline level 3 skills", "Discipline level 5 skills"... etc? --Onteron (talk) 15:25, 26 October 2008 (UTC) ::::That is what I had in mind, something like: "Archery Discipline Level 3 Skill". I was just trying to think how the information on the skills would be used by people when putting together their builds. For example, another category could be "Stun/Knockdown/Dizzy" skills and so on. It would be interesting if someone could pull up all of those category of skills available for their class. Could we add this after the fact once the templates are up and running, or would we need to plan it out now? (Obviously, people could find this information themselves, but granularity is interesting). G.Slack 05:34, 27 October 2008 (UTC) :::::Yeah all that can be added at any time. --Onteron (talk) 02:24, 28 October 2008 (UTC) Is the Skill Template ready to use? If so, I will begin moving some pages over to it. G.Slack 00:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC) :Yeah if you're happy so am I. What I was gonna do though is first use it for the articles that still need creating, and then move the existing ones over to it. Onteron (talk) 01:04, 29 October 2008 (UTC) ::Good idea. Template looks great. Let'er rip! G.Slack 01:28, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Update I've made some changes: previously the color scheme was based on the colors used in-game but some things weren't quite right. Now it's designed to use the game's colors properly (eg previously all debuffs were blue, now only crowd control debuffs are blue and attribute debuffs are red). I've also added the damage icons and links. Also I've re-arranged the top section a bit; I'm a bit happier with it this way but don't think it's perfect yet. Open to any thoughts on the changes of course. Onteron (talk) 18:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC) Area/Arc/Range - Definitions Just some discussion/clarification on Area, Arc and Range for usage in the template. Range: Describes the maximum distance between the player and the target such that the power can be cast. If the distance is greater, a Out of Range error occurs. A range of 0 indicates weapon range. Weapon range for short bows: 25, 30. Weapon range for long bows: 30, 35. Weapon range for spears: In-game claims 2, see page Research: Weapon Range. Weapon range for blunt and slashing: see page Research: Weapon Range. Area: Area attacks affect a circle or an arc of a circle. Let Area be the radius of the circle of area of effect. Arc: Some area attacks, (Example Deafening Roar), do not affect the entire circle of area of effect. Usually these will affect an arc centered in front of the player. Let Arc be the center angle of the arc, measured in degrees. If this variable is left undefined and the power is an area, it is assumed to affect the entire circle. Note that powers in-game that do not affect the entire circle do not have the Area variable defined. Thus Howl is given to be range 6 and affects 360°. Deafening Roar we know is an area, but no area is given. This tells us that Deafening Roar does not affect the full 360°